i heard people in portland were laying in the streets and on the bridges. HELLO RIDICULOUS! what the fuck is wrong with people?

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Originally posted by k r i s t i n:
[QB]HELLO RIDICULOUS! what the fuck is wrong with people?[QB]

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You're kidding ? Short-sighted ? Dumb? When you temporarily block some streets to voice your opinion, the opinion that the president doesn't wanna hear of, you find this wrong ?

When a few ones risk their lives so that thousand innocent lives might be saved, you find this wrong. Oh yeah, I see, eat my burger, drive my car and screw the world.

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Originally posted by Daniel:
They know that the war is happening no matter what, so why even try to demonstrate against it? Move to France or Canada if you hate living in America so much.

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They want to make a difference, but they just cause more problems. They know that the war is happening no matter what, so why even try to demonstrate against it? Move to France or Canada if you hate living in America so much.(no offense to the French of Canadians)

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damn those fools. why did they throw the tea in the harbor? they're just causing problems. they should stop being assholes and support their queen and their motherland.

The demonstrations and "protests" of civil disobediance are being directed, in many, many cases, by the wrong people. Same with Vietnam. College students easily get dismissed. At least their opinions do. And why not? For the most part, the rest of the world, well at least those with jobs, have to continue to work. They go through their daily routines just to pay their own bills, support their families etc...

The general consensus is that spoiled college students protesting the war are a nuisence. In most cases, they have no understanding of "real" life and what it takes to get by, and naively think that their little group and their "protests" really make a difference.
The truth is, the general consensus is right. In college, I thought that a utopian society was right around the corner. I was an activist of sorts. I supported the right groups. I protested "injustices." I volunteered at a Planned Parenthood clinic. I was a campus escort. I was a member of a Marijuana legalization group, I became part of Amnesty International and the ACLU. I thought that with affirmative action in place the workplace would be equal for everyone. I thought that society had learned a lot and that if people just gave a second to think about their actions, they would do more to help their fellow man. The problem is, that's just not how it works. Am I jaded by the system? No. I don't support it either. But I do live by its rules. I do adhere to many of its practices, and I have been turned (Somewhat) into a slave to the almighty dollar. Not by choice, not consciously, but by necessity.

I need money to live. I need to support the people I love. I will never be rich, I don't really care to be. I hate the government, I hate taxes, George Bush is a war mongering idiot. But, there is reall, NOTHING I CAN DO.
Somewhere above, it was mentioned that in 1968 there were a lot of protests about Vietnam, and how it went down in history as a war nobody supported. That is entirely not true. It was a change from previous wars, as it is viewed as a war that was unpopular, but not unsupported. Re-read the history you must have glossed over. The protests were on college campuses or almost entirely by college students. It wasn't supported by the youth. That was it. Most of the "adults" supported the troops. Maybe not the action itself, but the boys involved in fighting it.

And also note, if you think, for one idiotic second that a protest in 1968 (Most notably in Chicago during the Democratic National Convention.) meant ANYTHING. Think again. Nixon got elected in 68, and re-elected 4 years later all with Vietnam continuing. It ended SIX YEARS LATER. Protests meant nothing. Not a damn thing. Now all of those protesters are the ones sueing everyone and everything for a bigger slice of the American dream. The hippies and protesters became lawyers and government officials. Bill Clinton became fucking President for christs sake. Tom Hayden, one of the Chicago 7 married Jane Fonda, an ignorant traitor during Vietnam, and went on to become a filthy rich congressman in California. The coked up disco dancing yuppies of the 70's and 80's were the protesters of the 60's. A great bunch of heroes if you ask me... Fucking morons...

edited because I gorgot to quote "Swimming With Sharks"

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I can appreciate this. I felt the same way you do. My bosses were all shit. My jobs sucked. I mean, if you're not a rebel by 21, you've got no heart, and if you haven't gone establishment by 30, you've got not brain.

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[ March 22, 2003: Message edited by: ***norm ]

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Originally posted by kismet:

damn those fools. why did they throw the tea in the harbor? they're just causing problems. they should stop being assholes and support their queen and their motherland.

apathy gets you nowhere, my friend.

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Luckily I live in a place where there aren't any demonstrations, but if I could not get to school or get to where I want because of people blocking the streets in protest, I would be pissed. They cause problems for people that have no say in the war. Throwing tea in the harbor was not interfering the lives of the "average Joe."

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"Hats off to the nun with the man hands."

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Originally said by Rvd. Martin Niemoller (link with Brecht?)

First they came for the Communists and I didn’t speak up because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews and I didn’t speak up because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I didn’t speak up because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics and I was a Protestant so I didn’t speak up.
Then they came for me … By that time there was no one to speak up for me.

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Such an old quote, so eternaly true.

As for the Boston tea party, I think it quite bothered the english sailors and trademen, didn't it?

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Originally posted by Colonel Klink:
As for the Boston tea party, I think it quite bothered the english sailors and trademen, didn't it?

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if I could not get to school or get to where I want because of people blocking the streets in protest, I would be pissed.

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me, myself, and I. I think the fact that you might have to catch the later showing at the cinema is a lot less important on the global scale of things, no?

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Throwing tea in the harbor was not interfering the lives of the "average Joe."

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While I do agree with Norm that a lot of the protests are less than fruitful, I do not think that they are totally meaningless...people protest because they care, because somtthing has struck a chord within them and they are spurred to champion what they deem a worthy cause (whether it truly is is not for me to decide)...they have a voice and it must be heard...whether it will or not is a different issue...the point is, they care enough to do something about it...whilst most of us (including myself at times) are content to sit on our fucking asses...

The death of protest is the death of idealism and the victory of apathy...while I may no longer be as idealistic as I once was, that does not mean I'm about to squelch another's idealism...when the cause is just, I support one's right to protest...even if the powers that be are not listening they will at least hear what has to be said...

and i don't care because i'm not political, at all. i've never paid attention to like say what one person running for president wants versus the other. besides the fact that i have never liked this country, since i was little, just because i don't. there are many reasons that i am not going to go over and that are nobodies business.

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Originally posted by k r i s t i n:
people need to lighten up and stop taking things so seriously.

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Originally posted by k r i s t i n:
i am not trying to stop anyone from voicing their opinions, i never said that.

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...you just want to complain about it when they do .

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i have never liked this country, since i was little, just because i don't. there are many reasons that i am not going to go over and that are nobodies business.

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...if you don't like the country then perhaps you shoud do something top change it...start caring about your situation becasue no one else will care about it for you...apathy strips you of your right to complain.

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people need to lighten up and stop taking things so seriously.

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people need to lighten up and stop taking things so seriously.

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But honestly I think if all of these "thousands and thousands" of people took their time to do something PROACTIVE and POSITIVE, like helping the homeless, doing non-profit work, building housing for lower-income families, HELPING out the Police/Fire Department/ETC instead of hampering their efforts. I think most, if not all, of these people just want to rant and rave and shout how much they hate the US. If they were really humanists and CARED about PEOPLE they would (A) realize "It is extraordinarily ironic that the anti-war protesters are marching to defend a government which stops its people exercising that freedom" and (B) there are a MILLION other things they could all do with their time AND energy that would actually HELP other human beings.

It just seems really narrow minded and self centric, that these people feel they NEED to "make a difference" by VOMMITTING (?) on City Hall, or making it impossible for ambulances to get through a city. Grow up.

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the Bored lives FOREVER.

What I saw at the walkout

My favorite line:

Here, at last, was the immorality of the war made manifest. Let's summarize: George W. Bush, aided by a handful of ghouls, is removing Saddam Hussein from power so that he can put an SUV in every garage, oppress the poor, and commit election fraud. This was precisely the sort of serious thought I had hoped for.

[ March 25, 2003: Message edited by: NSA ]

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But honestly I think if all of these "thousands and thousands" of people took their time to do something PROACTIVE and POSITIVE, like helping the homeless, doing non-profit work, building housing for lower-income families, HELPING out the Police/Fire Department/ETC instead of hampering their efforts

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[ March 25, 2003: Message edited by: kismet ]

People, demanding an end to the vilence of war, decide to use pepper spray on police officers. They break stuff, and even steal... What a statement. "I am against violence, unless of course, I feel mildly threatened by illegal activity, or I can get something for free." Not the resounding battle cry of "No War For Oil," but it seems to be more true.

RJ, you made some very valid points, and I actualy agree 100% with what was said.
My point was not to stop people from being politically motivated, or even stop protests. It was to make people think about who they are protesting with. If CEO's of major companies, any government employee (non-military), and half the traders on wall street walked out, it would have made a difference. It would have been a HUGE protest. Not by the numbers, but by what it said. A bunch of college students not going to class is not called a protest. Here at least, it's called the first nice day of spring. Not a big deal. And, to top it off, we get the violence against the police (not war mongers, regular joe's doing their job) and vandalism and damage. Why? Immature protesters not sure of their actual position. Look at the interviews with most of them. A woman sitting in the MIDDLE OF THE ROAD angry because the police won't let her sit there. Common sense says her retarded ass needs to be run over. That isn't even the most glaring example, but I have typed enough on this...