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Author
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Topic: Democracy
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sickb0y
Member # 42
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posted March 24, 2003 15:58
none.i think i'm right. you should have added germany in there. and maybe umm... noone else. but yeah. none.
Posts: 498 | Registered: Oct 2001
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NSA
Member # 1
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posted March 25, 2003 00:01
Well Afganistan is on its way there now, and you have to say in Korea, we SAVED a Democracy from being overrun by Communism. So there would be a -1 Democracy if we didnt intervene. And if you put China 1945, You'd have to add Japan 1945 as well, and I think thats a nice US success story. And hell, Russia is a democracy now, due in part to the United States stand during the cold war, and we didnt even have to bomb much. Oh yeah and we went into Haiti in the 1990's. OH! And I mean, also.. the whole China thing, since its on your list a few times, resulted in Taiwan, and thats a Democracy, so thats a +1 for US as well. And I mean this whole idea is a little slanted, we didnt bomb the Sudan in hopes of raising democracy, we were doing it apparently to attack terrorists, same with Libia. Actually most of these attacks were small affairs. And Iraq 1991-1999.. well obviously we're working on that one right now! So yeah, anything can be slanted anyway you want, but this atypical "war solves nothing" post really doesnt say much. Of course without war WWI, WWII would have ended up worse for many Europeans etc. Go figure.
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the Bored lives FOREVER. 
Posts: 1564 | From: Galactic Empire | Registered: Oct 2001
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Colonel Klink
Member # 78
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posted March 25, 2003 13:02
quote:
Originally posted by NSA:
Well Afganistan is on its way there now
Well, the 1998 bombing didn't put an end to the talibans. Oh well, The USA put the talibans to power so that this region (and the pipelines that should go through) could be "stable". Go democracy.
quote:
and you have to say in Korea, we SAVED a Democracy from being overrun by Communism.
Freeing South Korea is one fact. Mass bombing North Korea is another. quote:
And if you put China 1945, You'd have to add Japan 1945 as well, and I think thats a nice US success story.
You don't get it. This is a list of countries arbitrarily bombed by the USA. JApan attacked the USA and was at war against it. Of course, when attacked why not defend oneself and retaliate? quote:
And hell, Russia is a democracy now
huh, sure ? well, seeing how the russians dealt with the opera hostages crisis, I doubt it.
But granted it's a democracy, it's the proof a country can become a democracy without being bombed.And I'm definetely sure the USA didn't bomb the USSR at all. We would have known it  quote:
Oh yeah and we went into Haiti in the 1990's.
Not sure the poorest nation in the world is a democracy. Viva BAby doc Duvallier ? quote:
OH! And I mean, also.. the whole China thing, since its on your list a few times, resulted in Taiwan, and thats a Democracy, so thats a +1 for US as well.
I don't recall why the US bombed China in 1945-46 (maybe to get rid of some rebel japanese still fighting there ?). But Chiang Kai-shek fled to Taiwan with 2 million people in 1949, when Mao took over.Without any US bomb. Really. Yes, the US helped them but only during Korea's war cuz Chinese were helping out North Koreans.
Till 1987, Chiang imposed a "perpetual" martial law. Thousands of opponents were executed under his rule, and severe restrictions were placed on civil and political liberties. Talk about democracy ?
quote:
And I mean this whole idea is a little slanted, we didnt bomb the Sudan in hopes of raising democracy, we were doing it apparently to attack terrorists, same with Libia. Actually most of these attacks were small affairs.
You don't bomb such a country just to "annoy" them. You somehow want a change in the relations between them and you. quote:
And Iraq 1991-1999.. well obviously we're working on that one right now!
Indeed. Expect a better result ? quote:
So yeah, anything can be slanted anyway you want, but this atypical "war solves nothing" post really doesnt say much. Of course without war WWI, WWII would have ended up worse for many Europeans etc. Go figure.
Paul, I'm not saying "war solves nothing". I'm saying "war is rarely the best solution". And more than anything, "the first casualty of war is Truth". Cuz most of the times, you lie to wage war.
And this thread is about hypocriticism. Saying "we invade this or that country so we can bring democracy there" is just wrong. Past cases can tell you it is wrong. SO why the fake excuse ?
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Industrial Revolution has flipped a bitch on Evolution.
Posts: 665 | From: Stalag 13 | Registered: Oct 2001
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NSA
Member # 1
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posted March 25, 2003 20:46
Well in due honesty, Bush's line all along was to invade Iraq to dispose of their weapons of mass destruction, the freeing of the Iraqi's was just a nice side note I guess.And you say all of these are trying to "bring democracy etc etc" but Vietnam and Korea were attempts at protecting Democracy, and Cambodia was related to Vietnam since the Viet Cong were traveling in that country. Sure you dont bomb countries for the heck of it (well not USUALLY) but most of the "examples" you posted were not bombed with the express intent of "Bringing them the gift of American Democracy". Afganistan 1998 and some others were Clintons attempt to get pressure off his sexual schtick, etc. Oh and Freeing South Korea is one thing? But responding and attacking the attackers is not okay? That doesnt make any sense, its the same as not going after the Japanese after we got back the Philippens. Just doesnt make sense, we knew the Koreans were still a threat and worked towards removing them, until China stepped into the affair.. but still it was not about bringing Democracy, it was about retaliation. Oh and it was a "UN Action" anyway, so it wasnt "arbitrary bombing". And sure war is rarely the BEST option, of course there are other options but sometimes war works pretty damn well, I suppose its hit or miss (ha ha!). I just think you should refine your list into bombings where the United States intended and attempted to create a democracy in said country through the use of bombs. Even in Iraq now, we bomb the military (mostly, at least we try) and then bring in food and medical supplies for the civilians. Same with Afganistan in 2001. Big difference from a few cruise missiles being shot off at a suspected terrorist. At least it is in my humble opinion.
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the Bored lives FOREVER.
Posts: 1564 | From: Galactic Empire | Registered: Oct 2001
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